Giving With Intention: How Donor-Advised Funds Fit Into a 360 Mindset (Ep. 3)

 

Charitable giving is changing, not just in how people give, but when and why they do it. As families think more intentionally about legacy, purpose, and impact, donor-advised funds are becoming an important part of the conversation.

In this episode, Jon Meyer sits down with Chris Boyce, Senior Charitable Consultant at Schwab Charitable, to explore how donor-advised funds fit into the intersection of wealth, time, and values. Together, they unpack current trends in philanthropy, including why more families are choosing to give during their lifetime, how donor-advised funds work for everyday givers, and how charitable planning can bring generations together.

What You’ll Learn

• Why charitable giving is shifting from end-of-life planning to intentional lifetime strategies
• How donor-advised funds work and why they are more accessible than many people think
• The role donor-advised funds can play in family legacy and next-generation engagement
• How complex assets like business interests or real estate can support charitable goals
• And more!

 

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Watch us on YouTube at https://youtu.be/gPpFMvBxD5M.

 

Connect with Jon Meyer:

• BGM
• LinkedIn: Jon Meyer
• Email: jmeyer@BGM360.com
• Schedule a Call

Connect with Chris Boyce:

• DAF Giving 360
• LinkedIn: Chris Boyce

 

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Transcript

Chris Boyce: We are sponsorships of lots of different organizations, so whether it’s the Indiana University, little School of Philanthropy, the National Center of Philanthropy, Stanford University, all these different organizations, Vanguard Charitable, fidelity Charitable, we all work collectively in the industry to financially support giving in the us.

You literally can make any grant, any gift, any charity that’s a registered 501 C3 with the IRS. As we all know, there’s hundreds of billions of dollars that are transferring from the baby boomers and half started, and two thirds of that’s in the charitable giving space. So whether it’s private foundations, endowments, trust accounts, donor advised fund accounts, all the different vehicles.

Intro: Welcome to Mastering the 360 Mindset with Jon Meyer from BGM. Join us as we explore ways to make the most out of your wealth, health, and time, unlocking opportunities for balance and lasting success. With insights from Jon’s years of experience and guest experts, you’ll gain the tools to design a life that works on your terms.

Now onto the show.

Jon Meyer: Today I want to talk about. Where the intersection of health, wealth, and time bring about more charitable giving. If we’re gonna talk about charitable giving, we gotta talk about donor advised funds. And so I wanted to bring on Chris Boyce. Chris is our consultant with Schwab Charitable.

He’s a senior charitable consultant at Schwab, and Chris comes to us from Chicago today to talk everything about donor advice, funds, and the trends in charitable giving. Welcome to the show, Chris. Good

Chris Boyce: morning,

Jon Meyer: Jon. And welcome everybody. Thanks for having me. You bet with that, let’s start with that big question.

When we talk to clients half the time, what we’re seeing is we have to really shift the conversation away from giving money later in life, especially at death, to something about giving money sooner. And that’s where guys like you come in. So why don’t you tell me a little bit about what are the current trends in charitable giving that you’re seeing?

Chris Boyce: Yeah, great Jon, and that’s a great way to kick off the conversation. So good morning everybody. Again, my name is Chris Boyce, senior manager at Schwab Charitable. I think, Jon, when we look at the key trends impacting the philanthropic space, you know, we sit pretty uniquely inside of all the Wealth Advisor relationships.

As you know, we’re the charitable division of Charles Schwab and Company. And so some of the key trends that we’re seeing, so first of all, as we all know, there’s hundreds of billions of dollars that are transferring from. The baby boomers and have started, and two thirds of that’s in the charitable giving space.

So whether it’s private foundations, endowments, trust accounts, donor advised fund accounts, all the different vehicles, number two, more and more baby boomers and next gen are looking at strongly what are the pros and cons,  advantages and disadvantages of maybe that grandparent, small private foundation.

Where they’re landing through your help and how the industry’s help, is that the attributes, the main features, benefits of the charitable giving account, also known as the donor advice fund account, become very compelling. So the first trend that we’ve seen over the last several years, and the industry’s expecting will continue, is that folks are closing and dissolving their private.

Foundation, for instance, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, $10 million. Number two, the second big trend is especially over the last five or 10 or 15 years, people build private businesses and they sell ’em. They build private businesses and they sell ’em. And so there’s these big liquidity events and especially with mass affluent, high net worth and ultra high net worth families, a lot of it’s landing with independent wealth advisory firms like your enterprise and others that we work with.

Again, they’re landing at, it probably doesn’t make sense to open up a small private foundation for the benefits of the donor-advised fund account. And so we have resources, we have tools, we have attorneys that can get into that conversation through you with those high net worth families. The third thing that we actively participate in is that we are sponsorships of lots of different organizations.

So whether it’s the. Indiana University, little School of Philanthropy, the National Center of Philanthropy, Stanford University, all these different organizations, Vanguard Charitable, fidelity Charitable, we all work collectively in the industry to financially support giving in the us and the next gen is the next big trend on, so the way that maybe grandpa and grandma gave, and grandpa and grandma had a small private foundation, baby boomers.

Now next gen, and it’s the term G two, G three, G four. We actually did a study this spring with Stanford University and the Lilly School of Philanthropy, and you could provide it to your listeners, but at a high level it talks about the next gen. My daughters, for instance, are gonna give a lot differently than maybe my spouse and I, and it’s different than grandparents.

So whether it’s where the industry’s heading with the next gen. And all the big liquidity events as, as far as selling private businesses and the trends about folks dissolving private foundations, they’re landing at a very compelling donor advice fund account as a key solution in that space.

Jon Meyer: When you talk about it, sometimes it sounds like it’s just for rich people, but the reality is what we are seeing, especially with our clients, is that just about anyone can do it because the donor advice fund allows them to have a tax impact today, but give the money away later.

So if you could do two things for me. One, unpack what the donor advice fund is and how it works. And then two, how are you seeing just normal people that want to give a little bit to their church every year, give money into the donor advice fund to be used later.

Chris Boyce: Absolutely. That’s the first big misnomer.

So if we have about 127,000 open and active giving accounts, donor advised fund accounts, most of them are small balance accounts. In fact, at Schwab Charitable, we have no annual fee. We have no minimum account size. You could open ’em, but account for literally $50. Now, nobody does that. I might be a good example, right?

So as folks accumulate brokerage assets. As they, as they accumulate certain assets, if they’re philanthropic, you could give to a church, you could tithe to a church. You could use a credit card to help pay for some 5 0 1 K or some 5K that somebody’s doing. But instead, advisors and clients are realizing it’s a little bit more tax smart philanthropy to use some of my low cost basis brokerage account assets or cash and fund the donor-advised fund account.

A lot of it, a lot of folks do it for one or two, $3,000 a year. Yeah, we have some really large accounts, but if we have 127,000 open and active accounts, the average account 25 to 30 to $40,000. So people fund this account and then they can give to any 5 0 1 C3 organization that’s registered with the IRS.

So to unpack it a little bit, these accounts are just like a brokerage account, as you know, Jon. So they’re opened up online. They’re part of the brokerage back office system. There’s a wonderful digital mobile app. So if I’m traveling, if my spouse and I go to a charity event and I wanna look at my balance, I actually wanna send a hundred dollars to that food pantry because we went to a charity event this weekend.

Click, click, click, go into the mobile app and send the money to the charity. So the main reasons why these are so popular is that. People can fund the account and let’s just say there’s a thousand dollars in there this year. The first big thing is you don’t have to give the money away right away. So the Internal Revenue Service governs these accounts.

Number two, Schwab and Fidelity. We offer mutual funds, so any assets that are contribute to the donor advised fund account, now I actually can elect to have that money grow tax free into the future. Third. All the clients do succession planning on it. So just like I might have all of our assets, whether it’s retirement accounts or brokerage accounts or bank accounts, everything could be split between my spouse and I.

Then eventually, when maybe that original couple pass away, folks do customize succession planning on these accounts because a lot of these accounts, there might be a balance left over 20 or 30 or 40 years from now. And then the last thing. Why people love it and it’s so easy is that you literally can make any grant, any gift, any charity that’s a registered 501 C3 with the IRS.

So for instance, our organization, we don’t police or influence what charities I want to give to as the donor, conservative, liberal, controversial. It doesn’t matter. We’re a national sponsor of a charitable giving offering. We’re audited and regulated by the Internal Revenue Service. As a national sponsor, we can’t say, well, Chris and your spouse, you can give to these charities, but you can’t give to these charities, and that’s why people like it because it’s so easy to open.

It’s very competitively priced. The fun part is to give money to charities. It grows tax free over time, and then eventually it’s part of my succession plan. It’s part of my will. It’s part of my estate. One last thing, Jon. You know, people also have the misnomer or the misunderstanding. Well, just rich people park money in these accounts and they don’t give it away.

That’s not the case. So for 26 years now, because we have the stats, Schwab Charitable Vanguard, fidelity, every year. 20% of all our assets go to charities. In fact, last year alone, Jon and all your listeners, we processed $9 billion out to charities, just us alone. Last year. So at Schwab Charitable, we sent $9 billion out to charities and helped 155,000 charities, and it’s very popular for the reasons I just cited.

Jon Meyer: Yeah, good note there. What I’ve seen with most people is if they’ve got money in a donor advice fund, they’re actually more generous. They oftentimes feel like, okay, I’ve got this, I might as well give it away. Um, and the second thing I tell you, from a, a strategic standpoint, we have a lot of clients that try to give three to five years of giving into a donor-advised fund so that they get a tax impact today, but then they can give it out longer.

Mm-hmm. And by doing that, their lump, you know, their lump sums are bigger, therefore they get more generous. So it is interesting to watch how, you know, if you look at the trends, how this has shifted even in the last five years. It’s been dramatic. To that point, you talk about cash and, and, and, uh, maybe some appreciated assets going in.

Mm-hmm. But I’ve had a lot of conversations with you guys about what I might call the weirder assets. ’cause you can do other charitable giving. If, if you’re, you know, let’s say a small business owner, you wanna contribute some shares of your company, things like that. Why don’t you just give us a few minutes on what else can you do with these things beyond just the normal.

Great point.

Chris Boyce: So most of the time people use publicly traded securities, stocks, ETFs, exchange traded funds. So you have assets, for instance, in taxable brokerage accounts, and then you use those assets and, and contribute or give it to the charity, which is swap charitable. But remember, the Internal Revenue Service says maybe my spouse and I own a private business.

Maybe we have a commercial building, maybe we own residential, even cryptocurrency, rare coins, or restricted stock. Maybe my spouse works for a non-publicly traded company, and now that she’s a senior officer, for instance, she’s vested in that company and she receives, let’s say, restricted stock and she starts to have the option to cash that in.

So when you have these complex illiquid assets. Schwab Charit has a team and our complex strategy team, and there’s eight attorneys on this team who have significant industry experience about the due diligence on what you just said. So for instance, most of the time, that’s why I raised the point, all the real wealth in the United States, people build private businesses and they sell ’em, and they build private businesses and they sell ’em.

And there’s big liquidity events. And so to get out in front of that wealth advisors like yourself and all the other wealth advisors, they tap into this complimentary service within Schwab and we help you help the client understand, okay, what exactly is the asset we’re getting ready to sell our private business, S Corp C Corp, limited liability, it doesn’t matter, and all these things will own so that you’re, we can help your client.

Then eventually there’s a large liquidity event. The donor, the private business owner can take a small portion of that asset before they sell it, before they consummate it, and they can donate it to a charity, which happens to be a Schwab charitable, which is a donor-advised fund account. So while most of the assets are the traditional stocks, bonds, ETFs, or cash, the largest growing part of our business, in fact, Jon.

We did a billion dollars in complex illiquid assets last year, the sell of the private business, commercial real estate, residential real estate. If people have maybe gotten fortunate in owning private equity or hedge funds, or one of the folks in the family receives non-publicly traded side, all these complex illiquid assets can also be part of the charitable giving equation.

Jon Meyer: Yeah, that’s, that’s the part when I started going down that path. That was super interesting. Um, you can, you can do some really cool things. Yep. Let, let’s jump to the back end of that. So now you put your money in and you talk about, um. Giving out. But what I’ve also seen is this has brought up conver broader conversations within families because it’s not just about mom and dad handing money outside.

Now they wanna figure out, well, how do I include my children? What are you guys seeing in that space as far as engaging all family members using a donor advice fund?

Chris Boyce: Great point. So, you know, if we take my example or so folks grew up, maybe, you know, you have time, treasure, and talent, right? So maybe when you’re younger and.

You start working, you get married, you raise a family, you maybe have a lot more time and maybe not as much treasure, but you have expertise. So eventually you can sit on boards, you become more philanthropic, and you involve your kids. You try to model that behavior. So I learned that behavior growing up in Wisconsin, a small town, Coleman, Asheville, Wisconsin.

Some of your listeners might know that as long as you don’t say Go Packers, we’re good. But when it comes to philanthropic giving. So what families do is, what’s wonderful about the donor advice Fund account, whether it’s ours or Fidelity, is that there’s all these tools and resources and best practices.

So for instance, I mentioned that customized succession planning. So at a minimum, this is just like any other asset in the family, with the donor, with the client. So whether it’s retirement accounts, brokerage accounts, bank accounts, we instill the best practice to you, the wealth advisor. Talk to your donors, your families, about.

If there’s any money left in this account, 20 or 30 or 40 years from now, be part of your will, your estate plan, et cetera. Most of the time, maybe kids are gonna split everything. And so in our example, if there’s any money and there will be, there might be a balance left in a donor advised fund account when our estate plan is fin finally enacted and two daughters are gonna split the account and now they’ll have their own donor advice fund account and their name.

There won’t be an immediate tax benefit, but they’re going to enjoy the same tax benefits in their lifetime, as I did in my lifetime. Number two, you can get together at 4th of July and Thanksgiving and Easter, and then your mom’s birthday or whatever, right? So families get together and talk about charter planning.

What are some organizations that we wanna give as a family and or for instance, Hey Kylie, do me a favor, right? So you go up on the Schwab website. Look for charities that are based in the state of California, for instance, that are trying to prevent forest fires because your aunt and uncle live in Sonoma, California.

So my daughter or anybody can click, click, click, go on the website, type in certain criteria that meets a donor’s mission or objective. And then third, we have tools and best practices. We have a wonderful giving guide, which really helps the family kind of further define and map out. Their charitable planning strategy and their succession planning and what are the best types of charities to look at and you know, what kind of succession planning do we wanna look at?

So whether it’s just one or $2,000 a year, you fund it, you give it, you fund it, and you give it. Or some of the larger balance accounts, the industries, making sure that there’s succession planning, the families get together. Or it could be an individual, a widower, someone who doesn’t have heirs. What’s wonderful about this account, as you know Jon, it’s very flexible and amendable.

So my spouse and I could open up an account now we could name our two daughters, our as our eventual successors, and then maybe we actively give to 10 different charities every year. But then maybe one of those charities folds, maybe one of those charities. Closes, maybe we sell around one of the charities.

And so these accounts are not set in stone. They’re very pliable. They’re very amendable. They’re changeable from a family dynamics perspective. And it’s so easy because you just go on the website. I wanna send money to this charity. Schwab will do all the vetting as far as what charities are eligible.

Maybe when we wanna focus on international grants. So for instance, within Schwab Charitable, we have an international grants team. We have a special customizable succession team. So depending on the complexity, depending on what the family wants to do, depending on if it’s individual donor, folks can get together and you can work with your family and loved ones and make a difference to the charities you wanna support through this account.

Jon Meyer: So it seems like you’re you, ’cause you brought up family, um, what. You know, what’s been your journey that brought you to consult professionally about charity, your whole life, basically?

Chris Boyce: Yeah. Thanks for asking. So I, you just touched on it before. So growing up in Wisconsin, right? I pro, you know, back then again, you know, five kids wasn’t all that money around, but we made sure to help folks in our community.

So my mom, for instance, I was kind of prepping for this call. You need to go and shovel Mrs. Kirsch’s driveway. You need to go help Mrs. Borsky. Right? So. Back in the sixties and seventies, eighties, as we all grew up, uh, we became philanthropic. We didn’t know it. We were just like, you need to go help the neighbor.

Right? Then as, as we all grew up and then we start our professional careers, then we become more involved. We accumulate maybe assets we save for retirement, and then there’s ways to give some of your treasure away, right? Or. I’ve always been very philanthropic. I’ve always, I sit on two boards right now and whether it’s helping out at a faith-based organization, then you try to model that behavior with our kids and our girls.

So for instance, raising our two girls in Naperville, Illinois, they went to a public high school and the particular public high school in, they prevent Illinois. They really encourage kids to be philanthropic and you were supposed to get 50 hours of community service. Before you graduated from high school, and it looks really good on a college transcript, and now both my daughters, they both live on the northeast coast as adults, they’re philanthropic.

And then third, what I really love about this job is that I’ve always worked in financial services, but this particular role helps me in that it’s taking advantage of all my institutional wealth management experience and working with folks like yourself. Then also I work with the charitable division inside of Schwab, and then I’m helping clients hopefully give a little bit more to charities tax more efficiently.

You can always still use credit cards and tithe money to a church, but as families and individuals start to look at selling assets as they get older, why would you pay 20% long-term capital gains tax when you can, for instance. When the girls were little, we went to Disney World all the time, Jon, right?

And I told my wife, I’m gonna buy Disney stock. And all of a sudden I wake up 30 years later and we’ve done pretty good on Disney stock. So I could, for instance, sell 10 shares of Disney stock, take the after tax proceeds, and then make that donation of cash to the donor advised fund account, and then start using it to give to the charities.

But instead. Just take the 10 shares of Disney stock and donate it to my donor-advised fund account. And then, as you know, Jon next spring when we file our taxes, I don’t pay a penny of capital gains tax on any of those stocks or mutual funds or cash that are donated to the donor-advised fund account.

I’ve always been very philanthropic and now we’re in a position where I take advantage of tax smart philanthropy. I advocate and I’m that charitable consultant within Schwab, and I work with all the independent wealth advisors in the Midwest, and it’s a great job and it’s the best one I’ll ever have.

Jon Meyer: So you bring up something interesting. I’m gonna start with a comment and then jump into this. What we’ve seen is more and more people don’t want to just die with the money. And in fact, most people that retire 30 years later probably have just as much money when they die, as they did when they started retirement.

It doesn’t seem that way, but that’s what happens.

Chris Boyce: Mm-hmm.

Jon Meyer: And so they have to start figuring out, how do I leave a legacy? So it’s either giving to my kids or giving to charity, and they end up wanting to oftentimes give more to charity along the way. Even Warren Buffett is giving more to charity, so everyone’s doing it.

But you said something interesting. You said you sit on boards of nonprofits and I do too. Let’s jump to that side of the fence. What are nonprofits missing? Yeah, because every time I go to a event I was at one last week, they never on their form of asking for more money or saying, do you have a donor advise fund?

Would you be willing to give from your donor advise fund? And I watched a bunch of people at my table write on their little card. I have a donor-advised fund I’ll give you from that sounds great. But they never follow up and say, oh, since you have that, can you give even more? So what are charities missing on the backend here?

Chris Boyce: Yeah, so great question. So there’s about 1.6 million charities in the us so 501 C3 tax exempt organizations, the American Red Cross, St. Jude Medical Doctors about borders, some of the medium sized charities, food pantries in your community, my community. So thankfully, luckily, over the last 10 or 15 or 20 years, more and more charities, more and more tax exempt organizations are including.

A tab on their corporate website. Uh, people who sit on the boards have financial service experience. So over the last five or 10 years and what, but there’s still a lot of improvement that can be made. There are a lot more charities that have become familiar with the features and the benefits of a charitable giving account, which is known as a donor advisement account.

But there’s still a lot of charities that don’t. And so for instance, we created a, we work with Stanford University and that National Center of Family Philanthropy. We created a wonderful resource. In fact, we have on our website, Jon, and for all your listeners, we have a special section just devoted to charities, best practices, marketing collateral, testimonials from donors and clients and advisors that focuses on the business efficacy of, okay, I’m running a small charity.

I wanna take advantage. You know, I get checks from clients once in a while and it’s from a donor advised fund sponsor. I’d like to understand more about it. So up on our website, we created a wonderful tool. It’s our nonprofit fundraising toolkit. Eight actionable ideas. Now, a couple of ’em are what you just said.

Number one, up on your website. Just have a button that says, you know, donor advice fund, account 101. Like what is it and how do people use it? And that could be one of the ways that charities receive money from donors. Number two, things like when you do receive grants and gifts from donors through a donor advice fund.

Acknowledge that because then like myself or you, I have lunch, I have coffee. I have some group that I hang around with. Maybe I am in a men’s group of a local faith-based organization. I’ll say to my buddies on Sunday morning, yeah, you know what? I gave a hundred dollars to that church that we belong to through my donor advice fund account.

And all the guys sitting in the table recognize that. So, and then third things like when organizations do campaigns, or maybe they’re raising money to add an addition to their wing or so when they’re. Proactively marketing to the different donors and prospects and clients. Put a sentence or two in your annual appeal on your newsletter up on your website.

It makes a difference because a lot of clients don’t realize that that local little German cultural center that I sit on the board with in Chicago. I’ve been advocating for three years, and so now my executive director and all the other board members know what a donor-advised fund account, and it’s been included on our website, but there’s still a lot of education.

There’s still a lot of improvement. So whether it’s you as a wealth advisor, us as a national sponsor, we get the word out. People are better now, but there’s a lot of ways to improve it going forward.

Jon Meyer: I, I just wanted to bring that up. ’cause when you said that, I thought, there’s so many charities and boards that I’ve sat on that where they don’t know exactly how to approach this topic and this topic’s becoming bigger.

So as we wrap up, what am I missing? Like what, what haven’t I asked you that we should all know about? Charitable giving or the donor-advised fund, or trends or whatever else?

Chris Boyce: Yeah, no, I think we touched on the main points. You know, I think. When you look at, you know, where’s the puck headed, right? Over the next three to five to 10 years.

So first of all, like I mentioned before, hundreds of billions of dollars is moving from grandpa and grandma, baby boomers, to millennials, X, Y, and Z, and it’s already in the charitable giving space. So whether it’s a private foundation, assets and an dominant, a donor advised fund, account, trust, show, remainder trust, whatever the vehicle is.

As you know, Jon, once it’s irrevocably given or funded, you really can’t. Undo that. So a lot of wealth advisors are becoming more educated and a lot of retail clients are looking at the main features and benefits of a charitable giving account. But we’re agnostic. We’re just trying to increase giving in the us.

Number two, I would encourage all your listeners to go to the Schwab website or the Vanguard website or the bank. Because there’s a plethora of marketing and collateral and best practices. And what’s cool about the things I mentioned today is you don’t have to have your donor advice fund account with us to tap into these resources to read about how my family and I can do a better job maybe to start taking advantage of a donor advice advisement account.

I mentioned where a lot of families know about some charities that maybe my spouse and I wanna give to maybe my two adult daughters. A lot of clients once they fund these accounts, wanna find new charities. So up on our website for instance, we’ve taken the leading third party charity evaluators. So a lot of your listers know like Charity Navigator and give.org and give well, so up on our corporate website, up on schwab charitable.org, we’ve taken the leading third party charity evaluators.

They give all the charities in the US. They give ’em, you know, gold stars and they give ’em ratings and they make sure that the money that the organization is making a difference to the mission. So you can go up on our website, look for charities that meet a certain criteria, a certain objective. It spits out two or three different charities.

You set those aside and then we can get together as a family. We can get together as a donor, do our further due diligence, and then maybe start making grants to this charities. Then third complex illiquid assets, right? A buring part of our business will. We have eight attorneys and our complex asset team.

So the sell of the private business, cryptocurrency, restricted stock, commercial real estate. And then fourth, just, you know what’s nice about the donor advice fund account? It’s additive. It doesn’t replace, it can supplement. I can still use a credit card once in a while. Maybe I tithe to my church and I just have an auto debit to my checking account to the church.

But what’s nice about the donor-advised fund account is more and more clients and more and more of your listeners are have done well in financial markets, and why not take advantage of tax mark philanthropy and one of the vehicles, and why it’s so compelling and why it’s so popular. Are the features or benefits of a charitable giving account, also known as donor advice fund account.

And I’m always available, but um, it’s been a pleasure this morning and we greatly appreciate the opportunity to chat with you.

Jon Meyer: Yeah, thanks a lot Chris, since you’ve mentioned it several times, I’d encourage people listening to go to Schwab site. It’s DAF giving three sixty.org. Yes. Um, and it’s a fabulous site.

I’ve sent many people there for education and once in a while, quite honestly. Me or my team will jump on and look at stuff too. So I love that site. So thank you Chris for joining us and for all of you out there, if you wanna get in touch with us here at BGM, go to BGM three sixty.com and you can see everything you want and, and chat with me if you want.

Other than that, please like, or share if you like this podcast And everyone, have a great day.

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